Feminism Goes Too Far?
cross posted at Shakesville!
Hi Shakers!!!1!!one!
I suffer from insomnia, so when I was reading the news last night instead of staring at the ceiling I came across an article in the Detroit Free Press online (I still keep up w/ news in my home state from 6000 miles away), freep.com, and while I was bleary eyed and trying to write a coherent response to it, I decided that maybe someone better should do it, w/ more readership, and I emailed the link to Liss.
She was so not going to let me off the hook. Instead, she asked if I was interested in guest blogging at Shakesville, which honestly hadn’t occurred to me. The idea made me *squee* so hard that I almost wet myself. Then I looked at my post, and thought “Crap, someone might actually read this”. So I toiled a little more, hoping to bring to Shakers something worthy of the reputation that Shakesville so deserves. To say I am feeling pretty special and lucky right now is not accurate.
So, here goes.
If you ask Holly Bowne feminism has gone too far.
And now it is tearing our boys down and stopping us from teaching them how to be men!
Oh noes!
Bowne wants to know why feminism has decided that beating up boys is the thing to do in order to achieve our goals.
She starts off w/ the normal “yadda yadda yadda I think men and women should be allowed to do the same jobs”, ”I like the political and economic gains feminism has made” to get her feminist street cred and show her appreciation that she is allowed to write things and get them published too, but it pretty much goes down hill from there.
Feminism is, of course, to blame, b/c her son’s soccer team “held back” when playing in an indoor league game against a girls’ team. Apparently the little man cubs were being “punched in the back of the head” by the girls, and it is all the fault of feminism.
After the soccer game, I asked a manager why this talented girls team didn’t play up a few levels within the girls division instead of entering the boys’ leagues. I was told that prohibiting them from playing in the boys division would be considered discrimination. Amazing. Women have fought a long, hard battle to earn equal rights. We now have clubs, sports, colleges and political organizations solely for women and the support of women’s rights. But we’re still not satisfied.
It’s feminism’s fault that girls’ sports teams are allowed to play boys’ teams. OK, I can see that. I don’t think that is a bad thing. Bowne is upset b/c for feminists it isn’t good enough that girls have their own teams, leagues, clubs, tournaments and whathaveyous, but now we want our girls to be able to compete against other teams…even boys’ teams. We are ruining sports by wanting girls and boys w/ similar ability levels to play w/ or even against each other, and that is confusing our boys. I am pretty sure that history has shown us that separate is not equal.
What I really think is confusing our boys is the concept of chivalry, and how it forces gender roles. From the very moment the doctor proclaims “It’s a boy!” the stereotypes are forced down their throats by every thing and person the come in contact w/. Bowne mentions that she has taught her boys to not be aggressive w/ girls, that boys must protect girls, and even “step to their defense”. I can see where she is going, we certainly don’t want more violence against women, and I definitely think we need more feminist allies in men, but I just don’t buy this whole “protect the fair sex” mentality. Chivalry, from the French word for knight, chevalier, is the concept that began w/ Knightly Duties, and has evolved into this idea that men must treat women w/ “respect” by treating them as weaker and in need of being protected. Chivalry, on its surface seems like a great idea– treat women w/ respect. But, it is really just sexism in a big pretty bow meant to match your purse and high heels.
Even more irritating, to me, is Bowne’s idea that feminists are seeking to get their equality by beating up boys. The image of the ball busting, steel toed boot wearing, man bashing feminist is nothing new. She thinks that feminists are promoting violence against boys and men as a way to get a leg up on society. Her proof of this agenda is the horrific line of shirts geared at “tweeners” by David & Goliath, specifically the ones that say “Boys are stupid, throw rocks at them“, the one that stirred the pot w/ MRAs. I can’t say that I speak for all feminists everywhere, but the promotion of violence towards anyone just isn’t a good idea in general. I certainly don’t want young boys wearing shirts like the “Problem Solved” shirt that caused a stir amongst feminists not so long ago, and likewise, to promote to girls that it is OK to “throw rocks at them” is not an ideal I want to pass on to my Kid when she is interacting w/ boys. I absolutely know that violence against women is significantly more of a problem than violence by women against men, but that does not mean that the way to make things even is to take out a few of the competitors in the MRA Olympics. I love how seeing a woman searching for this shirt in her kid’s size means that feminists are handing them out at anti men rallies across the globe. If this is what feminism is supposed to be like then I have been doing it wrong. Here I though we were supposed to be treating other human beings w/ respect, turns out all I really was supposed to do was buy the Kid a crappy t-shirt and give her a handful of rocks.
I guess what I am saying is that the problem here isn’t w/ the feminist movement, it is w/ the way that society has taught us to “raise men”. I am totally behind teaching boys that they should respect girls and women, not to hit or hurt them, I teach the same thing to my daughter, only I tell her it is never OK to hit or hurt anyone (w/o their permission, and that is a whole different post). We don’t need to teach them differently. Teach children to treat people as people, regardless of gender, race, religion, trouser size, who they want to kiss good night, or double jointed thumbs. If we want our children to play fair and equal then we need to raise them fairly and equally, no matter what color of cap the hospital puts on them when they are seven minutes old. The same way that I don’t want my daughter growing up thinking that she is secondary to the sons out there, I don’t want sons who grow up knowing how to “treat a lady”.
Thanks, Liss, for letting me hang w/ the cool kids today!
youre one of teh cool kids! ZOMG!!
ZOMG!
and in good company!
I was going to point out the flawed logic of girls’ having their own teams/league, because the whole point of feminism, it seems to me, is equality, not separation. Girls want to play soccer? Awesome. Everyone who wants to play soccer on the same field.
But then you beat me to the point with the way you wound it up, there.
I blogged about feminism, myself, the past couple days, once inspired by the Orange prize (the literary prize for women! Judged by women! Because men get all the good ones!) and Full Frontal Feminism.
Great post! And by the way, anyone who claims David and Goliath tees are representing feminists has no idea what’s up. Feministing called them out on a rape joke shirt recently. They also have a shirt that’s apparently making fun of the issue of child molestation. They’ll make a shirt about anything if it’s stupid and possibly controversial.
And you’re right – the person who was complaining is noticing that we have two different standards here, a chivalrous one and a feminist one, and saying that’s, well, a double standard. Yep, sure is. But she wants to get rid of the feminist one while I want to get rid of the chivalrous one. It’s funny how many conversations about double standards go that way.
totally. the chivalrous one is damaging to men as well as women, forcing them to behave a certain way, and in this example, apparently it is ruining their soccer game. feminism wants to do away w/ that. it’s amazing the people who don’t see it that way. i don’t know about anyone else, but i don’t want to be treated like a lady.
btw- congrats on the guest posting. As a feminist mom of a feminist boy- I call bullshit on the feminism hurting boys crap. I have wayyyyyyyyyy more to say, but jet lag is preventing me from being coherent
another time then your majesty!
and thanks
I love how you censored my opinion.
hey, rick,
your comment is in my mod queue, i am six hours behind east coast time, and not able to mod everything right away, as i also happen to have a life and job.
already approved commenters go straight through.
but your comment is inflammatory, and i don’t tolerate hate speech. while you made one or two half way decent points, the rest is bordering on things that i do not allow here. you may want to do two things:
1) review the comment policy at the top of the page.
2) look up the difference b/t “censorship” and “not tolerating nonsense on my own blog”. it is not censorship, as you are perfectly allowed to get your own blog somewhere and toss slurs about the Dalai Lama and your “what about teh menz!” speech there.
bottom line, if you just disagree, that’s one thing. i welcome dissenting opinions. i do not, however, have to fucking tolerate whiney MRA rhetoric or things meant to be inflammatory. my blog, my decision.
if you want to say something that is conducive to the discussion, i will let it through.
i am still trying to decide about your comment.
Ouya! Bringing the smackdown!
As Paris Hilton would say “That’s Hawt!”
Kisses darling, MRA trolls are BORING and unoriginal. Someday I should dig up the commenter who was pissed because not being able to rape women was infringing on his ability to network with other men. That one was at least unique.
I made a mistake, then. I’m sorry about the accusation, I reloaded the page and I guess I cleared a cookie or something..
My post was somewhat serious, and somewhat tongue-in-cheek. I guess my troll-fu is weak.. Anyways, when I take my kid out for walks in the morning, I’ve noticed that Dads sometimes outnumber the Mom’s in the supermarket on weekday mornings. There are more stay-at-home/work-at-home Dad’s (in my country..) popping up all over..
Anyways, I don’t see feminists
Does feminism have some sort of holy grail? Can we find the ultimate unified theory of feminism and chalk it up for a win? Women in general earn lower salaries than their male counterparts, and legal precedent has been set favoring women discriminated against monetarily in the workplace thanks to the large public sector union’s class action lawsuit. What will happen when men and women’s salaries even out? Either way – some lawyers got richer! :S Anyways, this is a historic ruling, blah blah blah etcetc…
Now, as a man – if I initiate a legal action against an establishment for gender discrimination for an advertised “open bar for ladies” night, I would:
a) be called a pussy, fag, etc …
b) have a bunch of horny drunk assholes want to kick my ass
c) make fark.com
How’s that for a double standard?! :(
In some ways I agree, but I still feel a double standard out there. If a boys soccer team would like to play in the girls league, it is forbidden. As addj stated, bars have “open bar for ladies” and a lot dating chat lines offer free service to women. We have “women only” gyms and numerous awards judged by women only and handed out to other women only. I know a lot of these were set up because women were not being appreciated for their contributions to the world. In the end, it’s just a discriminatory.
In high school I watched other male students struggle, because every novel and short story picked by our feminist teacher was written by women and for women, with little regard for any male reader. It was not that these male students couldn’t read, just that all the subject matter was directed towards females. I know it used to be the reverse with girls being left out, but I find either way simply foolish.
Women have many government services available to them, yet an abused man has hardly anywhere to turn. The court system has given nearly infinite power to women when it comes to divorce and children, unless it is glaringly obvious that the mother is unfit.
Personally I feel we can never come to equal ground, many women will not relinquish the perks chivalry allows them. I don’t blame them, if I could get gifts, flowers, paid for dinners and free drinks out of the opposite sex I would.(At least for a little while)
If women wanted to be included in everything, then they have to let men be included in their clubs and groups as well.
I’m rambling and if I offended anyone I apologize. I just feel that women today are defining their roles in society, while bashing any man’s attempt at finding his role. I’m just a little lost as what it means to be a man in a feminist’s world. I’d like some advice, not criticism on that matter. Thanks for listening.